Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
How to change Banzai Run sounds
09-17-2011, 07:52 AM
Post: #31
RE: How to change Banzai Run sounds
(09-16-2011 06:05 PM)Francis Wrote:  Thanks Mr Glee
The method of Ralph for ignoring Checksum is working for the Banzai run. (Except that its the adress FB02 that we need to change)
But I was wondering if it was a good thing to ignore the check sum??
Also for the Jet bumper I remak that the sound for wich I change it for seems to be slow to react to the jet bumper being hit

Oops, yes you're right of course I was searching for the command afterwards C6 0A as the code is similar in each system 11 game, but not always - the branch value varies.

You can actually correct the checksum eventually as well instead of just letting it skip over it, I figure if you made the rom for your own machine, you don't need a checksum corrected as you burn the chips yourself and will recognize when a rom isn't working.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-17-2011, 02:06 PM (This post was last modified: 09-17-2011 02:52 PM by Francis.)
Post: #32
RE: How to change Banzai Run sounds
Hello Mr Ralph
I'm not sure I understand what you said correctly.
When you said:
Oops, yes you're right of course I was searching for the command afterwards C6 0A as the code is similar in each system 11 game, but not always - the branch value varies.
It means that I'm right when I said that jet bumper are slower to react , because there is more operation to do the sound than the old sound??
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-18-2011, 03:10 AM
Post: #33
RE: How to change Banzai Run sounds
Here is the result on visual pinball


Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-18-2011, 04:54 AM
Post: #34
RE: How to change Banzai Run sounds
(09-17-2011 02:06 PM)Francis Wrote:  Hello Mr Ralph
I'm not sure I understand what you said correctly.
When you said:
Oops, yes you're right of course I was searching for the command afterwards C6 0A as the code is similar in each system 11 game, but not always - the branch value varies.
It means that I'm right when I said that jet bumper are slower to react , because there is more operation to do the sound than the old sound??

Regarding the location of the checksum value - @02 instead of @04 - the checksum routines all have the C6 0A in them which is what I was searching for to find the location in Banzai vs. other system 11 games.

the 27 xx is "beq $somewhere" (branch if equal) that changing to "20 $somewhere" makes it "branch always".

Nothing in regards to the sound itself, just the checksum code.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-18-2011, 10:33 AM
Post: #35
RE: How to change Banzai Run sounds
The new sound could be delayed for a variety of reasons. I doubt it's due to just too much CPU operation, I'd guess it's explicitly being delayed for a very specific reason.

The following statements assume there are two CPUs independently operating much like WPC system with main CPU and sound board CPU existing on two seperate piences of circuit board, I'm assuming system 11 has seperate main CPU and sound CPU but they just reside on the same piece of circuit board. It's been many years since I've looked at a system 11 pin.

It could be the sound CPU might be coded to always delay the new sound number you picked, just because the designers found it needed to be delayed from where it normally gets called. It could be the encoded sound effect has delay built into the sound itself, so the sound CPU thinks it's playing audio when, in fact, it's just dead-air for a moment of time. You can probably test that idea by manually playing the sound in pinmame F4 mode, if it has a brief delay before playing then it's the sound CPU adding the delay, or the sound itself has dead-air before making any sounds.

Could also be the main CPU that enques the new sound number has some special check for that sound effect, and puts a delay value when it enqueus the sound effect into the sound CPU. On the WPC there is some metadata associated with sound enqueuing which, as far as I can tell, has to do with a priority level of the sound, and indicators whether other sounds may override this sound.

So this means more experimenting and more trying to figure out where the desired sound you want is used, and what other data might be associated with such sound, or if modifying that other data might change this delay you're talking about. This is all just a guess on my part but plausable reasons for the sound being delayed.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-18-2011, 12:18 PM (This post was last modified: 09-18-2011 12:25 PM by Francis.)
Post: #36
RE: How to change Banzai Run sounds
Hello Everybody
I have dont some manual simulation of the sound play by the bop bumper ( T + R if my memory is good)
And I found that when the bop bumper is hit, It will play the sound once for 2 hits. But this is the case for all sound (even the original one). But I think this is due to the fact that physically then bop bumper hit twice the switch when the ball hit them.
For the sound that is slower to react. I think the problem is in visual pinball 8, that is playing the mecanical sound of the bopbumper then playing the sound in pinmame.
Because its the same thing with the old sound.

Also for the checksum.
I fear that something goes wrong if I skip it.
What is the meaning of doing a checksum of the rom?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-18-2011, 05:20 PM
Post: #37
RE: How to change Banzai Run sounds
It sounds like the issue is that you first hit the keyboard combination to close the switch (turns into a dot on the switch matrix on your pinmame screen) and then you need to hit the same keyboard combination a second time to open the switch (makes dot go away). This is simulating you walking up to the real pinball machine and putting your finger on the switch to close it (first keyboard combination) and then after awhile, taking your finger off the switch (second keyboard combination).

Checksum is useful for detecting problems in the rom. If checksum matches the expected value then it's likely all coded bytes are at their expected value. If checksum is wrong then game code could act abnormally. In a real world situation this might happen if a bit turns from a 0 to a 1 (which is more likely than a bit changing from a 1 to a 0). In Pinmame it's just a file on your computer so who cares. Ralph provided excellent method to bypass the checksum, but it does make sense for you to figure out how to make a correct checksum if you are going to burn the ROM into your machine. It seems like somebody would have documented how system-11 checksum works and you might find it somewhere on the internet. If the info isn't out there then you can probably fixup the checksum by determining how you changed the bytes and then fixing up some unused byte to compensate. For example if you changed a 0x11 byte to 0x33, then you added 0x22 to the rom checksum, so you need to subtract 0x22 from some other byte to fixup the checksum. In WPC there's usually some text that's put in which is obviously not used in the game such as names of the manufacturer and year, those are often good candidates for unused bytes. Otherwise if you see a large block of 0xFF bytes, those are usually unused bytes as well. There is a possibility the checksum is similar to WPC where they store the 2-byte checksum at a certain place in the ROM, you could figure out how to update those 2-bytes with correct checksum for the ROM. In WPC the 2nd byte of the checksum itself is used on the game display to show the game revision, so it gets a little tricky to update the checksum with the 2nd byte being a desired game revision.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-18-2011, 08:27 PM (This post was last modified: 09-18-2011 08:29 PM by RalphButler.)
Post: #38
RE: How to change Banzai Run sounds
It's rare that an eprom goes bad IMO, and easy enough to checksum on a burner at any rate, point taken for roms that you spread around though. I tend to blow through a lot of rom versions so I disable the checksum while I'm playing around. Based on the sys11 checksum code, there will be one checksum byte in every page ($100 bytes) of code.

checksum routine follows

FA28: B6 C0 67 lda $C067 ;$0c - # of blocks to checksum
FA2B: 97 82 sta $82
FA2D: CE FF FF ldx #$FFFF ;start location
FA30: DF 80 stx $80
FA32: 7A 00 82 dec $0082
FA35: 2A 03 bpl $FA3A ;did not go negative (00->FF), go checksum that block
FA37: 7E C5 71 jmp $C571 ;done calculating checksum

;checksum calculation
FA3A: 96 80 lda $80
FA3C: 80 10 suba #$10 ;setup next block to checksum next time through
FA3E: 97 80 sta $80
FA40: 4F clra
FA41: A9 00 adca (x+$00) ;x is holding block start
FA43: 09 dex
FA44: 9C 80 cmpx $80
FA46: 26 F9 bne $FA41
FA48: 81 80 cmpa #$80 ;checksums sum to #$80
FA4A: 27 E4 beq $FA30 ;checksum for this section ok, continue with next block

FA4C: C6 0A ldb #$0A ;checksum failure
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-19-2011, 04:06 PM
Post: #39
RE: How to change Banzai Run sounds
I remember back in college, a professor made a comment about EPROMs, saying that they had a finite lifespan where eventually the bits would change back from 0 to 1. I think he said it was something like 20 years or so, but I find it hard to believe this is true since there are still quite a few games and devices out there running original EPROMs from the late 70s and early 80s. Perhaps it makes a difference as to whether the ROM is sitting on a shelf, or in a PCB, and whether it's powered up once in awhile (or powered continuously).
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-19-2011, 04:38 PM (This post was last modified: 09-19-2011 04:46 PM by destruk.)
Post: #40
RE: How to change Banzai Run sounds
We talked with 6 different owners of Valley Spectra 4 (1978). Of those, nobody had a working perfect romset in their machine. We ended up getting 4 of the owners' roms mailed to us, then reading out each chip about 20 times, then manually editing the code to get a playable game, and burning it back to chips.

Between acid damage from leaking batteries, to bit rot, to simply defective chips...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_rot - Bit rot has been documented but over a span of 20-30 years or more there isn't as much research and documentation as one might prefer. Now perhaps the problem doesn't exist in chips after a set date (1990?) - I would prefer not to wait around 30+ years to find out. Don't take the risk - back up your code in multiple places so if it does go bad you don't become another Atari Pinball with no backups available. Monza is extinct, never to be played again with original code.

It does happen.
http://my.ais.net/~xtreme/SF/Bit-Rot/

I now return you to your thread...
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)